Episode 33 - From Grief to Action: Justin Phillips and Breanna Baldwin on Overdose Lifeline and Harm Reduction

Transcript

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naloxone is the overdose reversal medication that we use to reverse opioid overdoses.

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Currently we're shipping in between 20 and 24 000 of those a month to hoosiers overdose.

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Lifeline exists because in october of 2013, I lost my middle child, aaron, to a heroin overdose.

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I, unfortunately, have lost friends to substance use disorder, so it's very important to me that I was in this work.

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It just felt like it was a calling of mine, that I had to do something to change what was currently going on.

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CDC just named us number two in the nation for reducing overdose deaths.

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Welcome to Homeward Indy, a bi-weekly conversation where we meet the people working to end homelessness in Indianapolis and hear their stories.

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I'm Elliott Zanz.

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And I'm Steve Barnhart, and I'm Steve Barnhart.

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And I'm Brian Ball.

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Justin and Bree, thank you so much for being a part of Homeward Indie.

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Thank you for having us.

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I am excited to hear about your organization and I'm sure that our listeners have a real interest in your stories.

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Obviously, this is a very difficult topic in some ways and it's courageous work that you guys do, and so let's just start with giving each of you the opportunity to just briefly introduce yourself so that our listeners can kind of hear who's who and what, maybe just say your name and what your role is with the organization.

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So, justin, you want to go first?

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Sure, I'm Justin Phillips and I'm the CEO and founder of Overdose Lifeline.

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Okay, and let me ask you one quick question about that how long has the organization been around?

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now, we've been in existence since 2014.

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So this year we will celebrate 10 years.

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Excellent, excellent, yeah, bree.

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Yep and I'm Brianna Baldwin.

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I am the director of harmuction here at Overdose Lifeline.

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Okay, and you messed me up already.

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You said Brianna and you told me before it was Brie, but that's okay.

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Justin, why don't you tell us a little bit about the origin of the organization?

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Sure, we Overdose.

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Lifeline exists because in October of 2013, I lost my middle child, aaron, to a heroin overdose.

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And at the time from basically a year from when Aaron shared with me that he was using heroin and could not stop on his own, to the loss of his life I didn't know a lot or understand opioids very well.

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I understood substance use disorder I have my own recovery from alcohol use disorder since 1989, but I did not understand opioids.

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None of us really did in 2012, 2013.

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So I knew right away that I had to do something around.

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You know sort of the hindsight that I was already being aware of as it relates to denial and the shame and the stigma that comes with substance use disorder.

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But then, within 45 days of Aaron losing his life, I was introduced to a group that was doing some work at the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department and they talked about this overdose reversal drug and the fact that first responders were just given permission to administer it in July of that year, 2013.

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And you know it could have saved Aaron's life.

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And I also learned that hydrocodone and heroin are the same drug, and lots of things that a fairly well-educated person you'd think would know.

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And so what did the rest of us not know.

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So that's really how we started with access to naloxone helping first responders with small grants and then passing the law ourselves so that you don't have to have a prescription for naloxone which was how it was then and then really education, awareness stuff that we still continue today yeah, so it was a obviously a very tragic beginning.

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But, um, I first of all express my condolences and I also express thanks for how you've turned that grief into such a good thing.

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Yeah, thank you.

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Bree, why don't you tell us a little bit about what's involved with your task, and then we'll get more into how the organization operates.

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And then we'll get more into how the organization operates.

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Yeah, so as Director of Harm Reduction, I am involved in the shipping of naloxone as well as test strips across the state of Indiana.

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So naloxone is the overdose reversal medication that we use to reverse opioid overdoses.

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Currently we're shipping in between 20,000 and 24,000 of those a month to Hoosiers whether or not it's organizations that do more grassroots outreach or it's organizations that do more grassroots outreach or it's individuals that are requesting online from us anonymously.

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Here, specifically in Indianapolis, we have our Chariot program.

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Chariot is our community harm reduction and improved outcomes team.

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So we're analyzing drug seizures, other disruptions in the drug market, other things that might increase an individual who is using substances, their risk of an opioid overdose, especially as it relates to fentanyl and other substances that are opiates.

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We use that data and we send out anonymous text alerts to those who are signed up and then they can make better decisions or decide to use test strips or decide to get naloxone or test strips from us.

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Additionally, we do all types of outreach for that program, including pop-up events where we're able to go into those communities and give out naloxone and test strips and have those conversations one-on-one.

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So, realistically, just a whole different approach to making sure that we keep people who might be addicted to substances or might just be recreationally using opiates making sure that they're safe and healthy, that way that they have a reduced risk of actually having a fatal overdose if they do overdose, because we know that dead people can't get into recovery.

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Okay, so an overdose doesn't mean the end.

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Exactly, we can take some steps to make sure that if somebody were to overdose accidentally on a substance, that they have a second chance.

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Right, that's today.

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Does that pretty well describe what goes on now, or what other pieces are there to the agency at this point?

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Yes, that describes one piece, the harm reduction piece, and I think the part that Bree leaves out is that she manages 200 plus grassroots distributors across the state, which is a lot of work, plus grassroots distributors across the state, which is a lot of work, so that 24 000 doses a month is is also about managing this network of volunteers.

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That's a big lift and so and lots of relationship building and importance around those community stakeholders.

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so I think she deserves some credit for that definitely um, but overdose, lifeline, uh, has always been about filling the gaps, and so, as I mentioned before, we worked to pass the law to allow access to naloxone to be available without a prescription, and we did education, and so we have built on those things really to do a plethora of programs.

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I might have a problem with saying no.

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And so we do a lot in what we call three buckets education, advocacy and support.

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So in our education bucket we have online learning for adults.

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We have a 20-hour certificate program through Purdue University.

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We have continuing education units for almost any clinician non-clinician.

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Some of our courses meet a piece of federal legislation that requires physicians to get education in substance use disorder, which I think is a great move.

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We do youth prevention programming, so we go into the schools and we talk to kids because we're really trying to change trajectory of substance use disorder by helping kids understand especially that an opioid is a legitimate prescription that you may or may not get for really legitimate reasons, but they're also very dangerous and they have a high potential for misuse.

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Yes.

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We have a program called Camp Mariposa, aaron's Place, which is for children ages 9 to 12 affected by the substance use disorder of a family member.

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So every other month we overnight with these 9 to 12 year olds, from friday to sunday, and we talk to them about addiction, we teach them and it's not their fault and we give them some resiliency and some tools to help manage those feelings that might come up when the grown-ups, as I like to call them, aren't necessarily, um, behaving predictably.

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A lot of our kids have lots of trauma and it's just a beautiful program.

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Wow, how did that come about?

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Yeah, so it came about because I listened to an NPR story about a program in Ohio, and so Camp Mariposa is part of the Aluna Network, which is a national network.

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We're one of 13 sites in the country and they built this model.

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It's recognized by the Office of Juvenile Justice and Drug Prevention as a prevention mechanism for youth.

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That nine to 12 year old range is sort of the key range of impact before onset of use is typically around the age of 12.

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So we it's one of those things.

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I heard the story and I told my friends I want to do this, so we're doing it.

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This was our third year.

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So and it's the stories that come out of that that the the change that we're doing for these kids is is remarkable.

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I mean all.

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The change is valuable, right, these kids is remarkable, I mean all the change is valuable.

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Yes, right, but sometimes it feels like the most heartwarming piece, right?

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Yes, children know they're experiencing trauma due to this harm that's occurring.

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These kids have often lost a parent or have a parent incarcerated, and so we talk about.

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One key to recovery with substance use disorder is connection, and what we're doing with camp is giving these kids a connection so they can go to camp and talk to their friends about all their parents that are in jail.

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Right, you can't do that at school.

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You can't go tell your friends at school about your parent that's in jail.

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Yeah.

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Just not going to happen.

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Yeah, you may have mentioned this, but how often do these camps take place?

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So every other month we overnight with them.

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So six times a year we overnight with them, and then the off months we do a family engaged activity.

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So we try to give that family a community, because oftentimes the family looks different.

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Maybe it's the grandparents, maybe it's step parents, maybe it's families that one of them's in recovery.

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So, we try to give them a community too.

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So we do, you know, fun things.

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Uh, we also try to weave in some therapeutic intervention when we do the fun things.

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Right.

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Does that take place right here in the Indianapolis area the overnight?

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We do.

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We have two locations, so one is here in Indianapolis.

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There's a camp location out on US 40, almost a plain field called Jameson.

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It's been there for like 90 years.

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Who knew, but it's really beautiful.

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And then we have a Southern Indiana location in Mitchell.

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One thing that comes to mind is how do you find these children to serve?

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So we take referrals from all different places.

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We work with community groups who are already serving these kids.

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We try to, you know, promote at those type of places.

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We can only take 30 campers at each location.

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So we're still kind of recruiting all the time, ongoing recruiting.

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But southern Indiana we have a harder time for obvious reasons.

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It's a little more rural, Yep and everything's free.

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So we make those programs available through donations and grant funding.

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Excellent.

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So you are educating everybody, from those who might be on the street to physicians who need some type of certification.

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Yes, we try and everything in between.

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I guess that is wild.

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How do families that might be listening to this what's their best way of contacting you, becoming aware of your services, plugging in in some way?

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So we have almost everything on our website overdoselifelineorg.

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You can always send an email to contact C-O-N-T-A-C-T at overdoselifelineorg.

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So those are your best way to get to you.

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There's an 800 number?

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I don't know off the top of my head.

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I even think of those who might have, say, a relative that they think could use some education, or that's dealing with an opioid issue within their four walls.

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That might reach out Right, because I didn't also talk about three other programs.

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Okay, go ahead.

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So we have programs for affected families Twofold.

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We have a program called CRAFT, which is an acronym for Community Reinforcement and Family Training.

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It's an evidence-based program with kind of a silly name but nevertheless it's a peer-led group for affected family members.

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So, similar to some individuals go to 12-step recovery for families.

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Some individuals use intervention for families.

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This is an evidence-based program where peers who have been affected lead a 12-week workshop and then you can start again.

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So it's sort of an ongoing again community for people and you learn, you know better communication skills, how not to enable sort of all the things that we do as family members I was guilty of them that actually aren't helpful to getting someone into recovery.

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So we have that.

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We have something called Peer Grief Helpers, which is only for Marion County, and it is a program for individuals who've lost and we match them up with a trained peer who has also lost just to sort of help walk through the journey is difficult, it's burdensome, especially if it's your child, and so we give them a community yes yep.

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And then finally we have something called heart rock justice family recovery center, which is a recovery supportive housing for individuals who are women sorry, who are trying to find their way into recovery, who have early recovery, who need housing, because it's very important in the continuum of care, of recovery that you get into some kind of supportive housing.

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But we serve a niche population of pregnant and or parenting children under the age of two, trying to keep the family unit together, trying to get those kids reunited.

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From the Department of Child Services, yep.

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So that's your focus, because obviously there's a whole lot of people who could use that care.

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But that's a very critical one.

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It's a niche population that no one else is doing recovery housing for, so we knew it was important because it's very complicated when you have to choose between recovery and your children, and many of these women are in early recovery but the the infant has been removed because of uh positively uh testing for substances and delivery.

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so so they talk.

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They face very difficult decisions yes, difficult decisions.

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Yes, bree, tell us a little more about harm reduction, we know you do a heavy lift?

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Yeah, sounds like a ton going on.

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There is a ton going on all the time.

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It's a great thing.

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Harm reduction as a whole is just a set of public health practices that allow us to make sure that we're circumnavigating some of the harmful consequences of naturally human behaviors.

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So harm reduction doesn't just relate to substances.

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When we're talking about substances, of course in this line of work it's naloxone and test strips.

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But harm reduction is also putting on your seatbelt before you drive your car every morning to work because that does not stop you from getting in an accident.

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That does stop those harmful effects.

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So when we're talking about harm reduction as it relates to substance use disorder, naloxone test strips, but of course interweaving harm reduction into the multiple pathways to recovery, into other programming, so education, we talk about harm reduction too, because just the educational piece might not be enough to actually reach somebody.

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Or when we're talking about all of our support programs or craft or anything that Justin had previously mentioned, we like to make sure harm reduction is interweaved in that because while we might not be using substances ourselves, we might know somebody that can benefit from having naloxone.

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And of course I've been in situations where, thank goodness, I have not had to use naloxone.

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However, there have been situations where I'm at an event downtown Indianapolis and somebody starts yelling that somebody's overdosing.

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I'm able, as a layperson, to have naloxone on me and help make sure I'm bridging the gap between when 911 or emergency personnel or staff can get to that individual to help giving them medical aid.

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So it's a really important thing for everybody to really know when we're talking about lay people, people in active addiction, clinicians, teachers, everybody who's interacting with anyone who might be using substances, whether or not it's recreationally or otherwise, harm reduction really helps, Helps to make sure we're bridging that gap and making sure people have access to really good, helpful healthcare resources.

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Yeah, I know that in the past there's been a lot of controversy surrounding these drugs.

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I guess you'd call it a drug naloxone.

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What do you have to say about that?

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Well, I think naloxone is an emergency medication.

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It's an emergency drug used to reverse a medical emergency, similar to how epinephrine is an emergency medication used to help reverse a medical emergency.

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So naloxone is completely safe, it's effective and it's completely legal to have as somebody that does not have a prescription for it.

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So, controversy aside, it's a life-saving medication and I think that's what the focus should be on.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I would say to add to that that you know, in the beginning, when we were working with the legislators to pass the law, we we had a lot of pushback, and I think it still exists that access to naloxone enables drug use, and I think that what individuals need to understand is that drug use is going to happen because the brain has been hijacked by the drugs and no logical behavior really takes place for someone who is in active, chaotic drug use.

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So access to naloxone is not going to change that other than keep them alive, and everyone deserves to stay alive long enough to find recovery.

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So sometimes I'll make the argument that if someone is a type 2 diabetic and they aren't following doctor's orders and changing their lifestyle in order to not have a diabetic seizure, we would never tell them that they were not going to save them.

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So it's the same thing.

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It's a disease.

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It's a chronic disease of the brain, according to the American Medical Association, and all we're trying to do is help someone find their way to recovery.

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Yes, brie, tell us a little bit more about your network and how that works.

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Bree, tell us a little bit more about your network and how that works.

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Yeah, so we have around 200 grassroots distributors across the state of Indiana.

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Those are going to look different depending on the county and the populations they serve.

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So those are organizations that are doing outreach or working one-on-one with people who use drugs or people who are affected by drug use in any way or people who are affected by drug use in any way.

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So across 92 counties we have around 80 of them that have a hub distribution network, which is in latent terms, saying that they have a distributor who's doing that one-on-one outreach or one-on-one personal interaction where they're able to provide naloxone and test strips that we provide them in bulk.

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Tell me a little bit more about that person.

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What's their role within the community generally?

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Yeah, so they might work at a non-profit organization.

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They might be just an individual or a person in recovery that's doing their own outreach.

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So it just depends on the nature.

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Of course, here in Indianapolis we have a lot of different organizational partners, but when we're talking about rural Indiana as well, a lot of times there aren't necessarily treatment resources or other non-profit resources that are doing that type of outreach to people who are in active addiction.

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So those are going to be more of individuals who are starting their own 501c3 or interested in doing so, or just want to be able to provide for their community and have those conversations.

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How do you find them?

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Or do they find you?

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Most of the time, I'll say they find us.

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However, we do want to make sure that we're providing resources to everybody in need.

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We don't want to pick and choose counties or populations to serve.

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So there have been times where we've done outreach to local nonprofits in areas where the closest resource is 20, 30, 40 miles away and of course, most of them are very receptive to at least having naloxone on hand.

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But oftentimes these are usually phenomenal organizations and phenomenal people who are doing this as volunteers, realistically, and getting naloxone from us and getting it into the hands of people who need it.

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So it is a big task for them as much as it is for us, but they're doing great jobs and really helping, being those boots on the ground, people outside of Indianapolis where we can't be in 92 counties at once.

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Yes, but you say that in a sense you are the boots on the ground here locally in Indianapolis, to a large degree.

00:23:44.465 --> 00:23:45.528
I think we're a piece of the puzzle.

00:23:45.815 --> 00:23:45.895
Yeah.

00:23:45.955 --> 00:23:57.068
Yeah, so there are tons of organizations here in Indianapolis that are getting naloxone from us and being in the 46201 zip code at the same time that we have an event in 46208.

00:23:57.068 --> 00:23:59.061
So, it's just going to depend.

00:23:59.061 --> 00:24:06.005
We do have, through our chariot program, the ability to do a lot of that outreach and a lot of those pop-ups and get that into the community.

00:24:06.005 --> 00:24:13.987
But we are surrounded by other partner organizations that are doing the exact same thing while also pushing their own programming as well.

00:24:14.895 --> 00:24:34.237
One thing that I think about is if you are kind of acting as a distributor of the drug, is there some particular reason that you have access, or is it because you have funding, or how did that come about?

00:24:36.469 --> 00:24:43.137
Yeah, so we're responsible for the law that allows people to have naloxone without a prescription.

00:24:43.137 --> 00:24:58.310
And we, early on when we passed that law and then in those early years we were distributing, we were training first responders, we were really doing the work before anyone else was doing the work.

00:24:58.310 --> 00:25:33.023
Else was doing the work, and so then we weren't doing it in such a grand scale until pandemic, and then the governor appointed Doug Hunsinger to be the drug czar, and Doug Hunsinger came into office and realized, simultaneously with the pandemic, that we needed access to naloxone to be better, and so they asked us if we would be able to do that, and I think we proved ourselves well.

00:25:33.044 --> 00:25:33.124
Okay.

00:25:33.664 --> 00:25:46.374
And we built the model that, in my humble opinion, is a remarkable model because we have these boots on the ground, distributors that understand their community better than we do.

00:25:46.535 --> 00:25:46.796
Yes.

00:25:47.237 --> 00:25:50.426
And we do it to the best of our ability, without any barrier.

00:25:50.426 --> 00:25:52.832
We'll send it to you in the mail anonymously.

00:25:52.832 --> 00:26:07.184
We don't ask for much information from you in order for you to receive it, and at this point we're fortunate enough to be able to do that all free because of the funding that we get through the state of Indiana and the governor's office.

00:26:07.184 --> 00:26:18.050
So we you know, CDC just named us number two in the nation for reducing overdose deaths in 2023.

00:26:18.070 --> 00:26:23.740
And I think that's in part due to the work this harm reduction team is doing.

00:26:24.164 --> 00:26:26.073
Bree, how did you get started with this?

00:26:27.385 --> 00:26:29.471
Do you want the short answer or the long answer?

00:26:29.972 --> 00:26:31.396
The medium, all right.

00:26:32.726 --> 00:26:36.837
So I graduated from IU School of Public Health, bloomington in 2021.

00:26:37.965 --> 00:26:54.653
Through my curriculum, I had an internship after my graduation and after all my coursework was over, and then I was fortunate enough to be able to be an intern here at Overdose Lifeline and, of course, that just spiraled into wow, I really like it here and I'm going to force myself to stay.

00:26:55.165 --> 00:27:17.712
I'm very fortunate for Justin for offering me an opportunity to stay, of course, but the longer version of that is, while I'm not a person in recovery or a person who's been directly impacted by substance use myself, I do have different ways that I've been impacted by substance use disorder and the disease of addiction and have always been interested in helping my community regardless.

00:27:17.813 --> 00:27:27.019
I grew up on the far east side of Indianapolis and I, unfortunately, have lost friends to substance use disorder, so it's very important to me that I was in this work.

00:27:27.019 --> 00:27:56.256
It just felt like it was a calling of mine that I had to do something to change what was currently going on, at least over in Warren Township, let alone across the whole state of Indiana, because I know there are tons of people like me who aren't in recovery but care about people who are in recovery and care about people who are in active addiction and just to be a drop in the bucket was such a great experience for me and has been such an honor yeah, so you've been here now for what about three years or so?

00:27:56.336 --> 00:27:57.820
yeah, going on three years to be.

00:27:57.820 --> 00:28:00.330
Three years in July for counting internship hours.

00:28:00.330 --> 00:28:05.267
Technically three years already, but three years in July for counting internship hours technically three years already but three years in.

00:28:05.267 --> 00:28:05.607
July.

00:28:06.869 --> 00:28:11.980
Justin, you have done an amazing thing here with an organization.

00:28:11.980 --> 00:28:14.527
What?

00:28:14.527 --> 00:28:16.553
What were you doing before this?

00:28:16.553 --> 00:28:22.532
I mean, how did you come about the skills to be able to do this?

00:28:23.244 --> 00:28:23.425
Yeah.

00:28:23.425 --> 00:28:37.397
So I think that's part of the reason that we're successful is because it happens to be my skill set transferred and sometimes I like to call it the imperfect storm of Aaron's loss.

00:28:37.397 --> 00:28:49.078
But prior to that I was doing injury prevention and public health grassroots advocacy around preventing unintentional injury and death to children, primarily under the age of 14.

00:28:49.078 --> 00:29:01.463
So I did a lot of car seats and I did a lot of smoke detector stuff and fire safety stuff and developed a lot of programs around those sort of topics, ran some grassroots coalitions.

00:29:01.483 --> 00:29:02.224
Wow.

00:29:02.505 --> 00:29:18.984
Then I I'm old, you know Then I went to back to school and I got a master's in philanthropic studies from the Lilly School because I liked the idea of connecting the dots and getting stakeholders to the table.

00:29:18.984 --> 00:29:23.547
But I wasn't really necessarily someone who wanted to go just be a fundraiser.

00:29:23.547 --> 00:29:37.573
So then I started working for the state of Indiana and the traffic safety division and I was managing big federal grants around highway traffic safety and putting people in, you know, making sure you click it or ticket and that kind of stuff.

00:29:37.573 --> 00:29:38.696
You've seen those campaigns.

00:29:40.387 --> 00:29:43.968
So you're the person who writes all those little slogans?

00:29:43.968 --> 00:29:48.778
No, somebody else did that we hired a campaign team to do that same.

00:29:48.837 --> 00:29:54.055
But so I felt like plus then, because I I thought I understood addiction.

00:29:54.055 --> 00:29:57.648
I, as I said, have been in recovery a decent amount of time.

00:29:57.648 --> 00:30:01.596
I had recovery before I had children.

00:30:01.596 --> 00:30:04.542
I thought I understood addiction.

00:30:04.542 --> 00:30:09.797
I definitely hammered it over their heads many a time, but I didn't understand opioids.

00:30:10.798 --> 00:30:12.845
So I felt like it's a different animal.

00:30:12.984 --> 00:30:14.567
Yeah, it is a different animal.

00:30:14.567 --> 00:30:40.411
So I felt like it was just a combination of all of those things and, and as I said earlier, um, shame and stigma and denial are pretty significant barriers to people getting the help that they need, and they certainly played a role with Aaron and I would not I don't say that to like take on extra guilt that I don't need to take on, but it's just the truth.

00:30:41.011 --> 00:30:54.246
So I like to say you know, had Aaron been diagnosed with a different chronic disease, I would have behaved differently, because we're not judging people who have cancer the way we judge people who have substance use disorder.

00:30:54.246 --> 00:30:56.871
So I wanted to do something about that too.

00:30:57.152 --> 00:31:00.459
Yeah, so you had all this skill set.

00:31:00.459 --> 00:31:03.973
You already had a passion for harm reduction.

00:31:04.013 --> 00:31:04.695
Sure, sure, yeah.

00:31:04.695 --> 00:31:08.053
In many ways I didn't know, but yes, where did that come from originally?

00:31:08.053 --> 00:31:11.509
I don't know Just my work ethic, I'm not sure.

00:31:11.509 --> 00:31:15.156
Just I've landed in a job at the Marion County Public Health Department.

00:31:15.156 --> 00:31:16.318
It's really kind of how it is.

00:31:16.519 --> 00:31:17.079
Is that right?

00:31:17.204 --> 00:31:19.412
But I think I just a social service at heart.

00:31:19.412 --> 00:31:20.134
Yes.

00:31:20.494 --> 00:31:24.873
Yeah, and helping people what it boils down to.

00:31:24.873 --> 00:31:33.179
And, like you said, then you transferred that energy, that know-how, to this cause.

00:31:33.259 --> 00:31:33.459
Yes.

00:31:35.047 --> 00:31:36.352
It's a wonderful story.

00:31:36.352 --> 00:31:44.885
I mean, it's a tragic story, but I guess it's a wonderful story also, if I can use both those terms yeah, I think it's fair.

00:31:44.885 --> 00:31:57.193
It's interesting yeah, what else would you like to tell our listeners, either one of you, in terms of anyone who's in any way moved by any of this?

00:31:57.193 --> 00:32:01.008
Is there something that comes to mind that we haven't talked about?

00:32:01.008 --> 00:32:01.048
I?

00:32:01.710 --> 00:32:03.594
You mean opportunities to get involved.

00:32:03.974 --> 00:32:04.316
Yeah.

00:32:04.656 --> 00:32:04.958
Yeah.

00:32:04.958 --> 00:32:24.344
So we have a variety of opportunities to get involved, from the very basic that every other Tuesday night we put together the overdose reversal kits that we distribute across the state here in our office building from 5, 30 to 7 is that right, brie?

00:32:24.604 --> 00:32:54.771
5 to 7, 5 to 7, and it's a great sort of conglomerate of people who show up people in recovery, just interested community members, just people who want to give back medical students, college students, all kinds of just great people come and we have pizza and we just enjoy some fellowship and we we're putting together these kits that you can promise are going to save someone's life every time wow, what an opportunity yeah, so we do that every other tuesday and again.

00:32:54.832 --> 00:32:59.450
The way to to get more details on that's through your website absolutely.

00:32:59.611 --> 00:33:03.087
Yep, there's all the dates for the rest of the 2024 calendar year.

00:33:03.388 --> 00:33:04.752
Yeah, and is it so?

00:33:04.752 --> 00:33:06.979
Is that something people sign up for?

00:33:07.681 --> 00:33:08.944
Yes, absolutely.

00:33:08.944 --> 00:33:11.109
So we have 60 spots every time.

00:33:11.109 --> 00:33:17.349
However, if need be, they can contact Overdose Lifeline if they have a bigger group that they'd like to volunteer.

00:33:17.951 --> 00:33:19.375
Yeah, cause we will do that too.

00:33:19.375 --> 00:33:30.986
So if you have a group because you're a business and you want to do some community service for your workplace, we will host you here during business hours.

00:33:30.986 --> 00:33:35.236
We will make it possible for you to do it at your place of employment.

00:33:35.236 --> 00:33:42.814
We just won't bring the drug out of the building just so we can be good stewards of the financial resource, but we have kits they're overdose reversal kits that have contents required of the financial resource.

00:33:42.736 --> 00:33:47.923
But we have kits they're overdose reversal kits that have contents required by the law, so we have to put those together.

00:33:47.923 --> 00:33:50.088
I mean 24 000 a month is a lot.

00:33:50.088 --> 00:33:53.836
So we always need volunteers for that okay, so that's.

00:33:53.836 --> 00:34:11.898
That's a great way, yep, to get involved and we have, um you know, opportunities at the Recovery House that are also available on our website to sign up for, and other various things that people can do that are found on our website as volunteering.

00:34:12.184 --> 00:34:16.215
What would be an example of the kind of thing at the Recovery House?

00:34:16.585 --> 00:34:23.139
Mostly we look for people who want to come help with taking care of the babies so the moms can have some respite.

00:34:23.139 --> 00:34:26.432
Then we do one-off things.

00:34:26.432 --> 00:34:40.179
We have a lot of one-off things and of course we do some donation drives around diapers and things that the women need, because all of the housing and all the resources for the women in the recovery house are also free to those women.

00:34:40.646 --> 00:34:47.916
And that's located right here in Indianapolis is that correct, and how many are you serving at a time?

00:34:48.364 --> 00:34:58.059
Yep, so we have capacity for 20, but it can vary, because if a baby is there, then the baby takes a bed.

00:34:58.804 --> 00:35:00.311
Bree, anything else.

00:35:01.605 --> 00:35:03.873
To expand on our network of grassroots distributors.

00:35:03.873 --> 00:35:06.793
We also have different ways that people can access naloxone.

00:35:06.793 --> 00:35:19.411
As we're talking about harm reduction, we know that not everybody's ready to have those face-to-face, one-on-one conversations with a healthcare provider or even their local health department or somebody at a non-profit where they know they can get resources.

00:35:19.411 --> 00:35:28.235
So we've set up 600 different Nalox boxes across the state of Indiana, including 100 plus here in Indianapolis.

00:35:28.235 --> 00:35:34.954
Those are thick acrylic boxes that look similar to newspaper boxes that are mounted on the outside of buildings and public spaces.

00:35:35.445 --> 00:35:39.871
So maybe that's a library, maybe that's your local fire station, maybe that's a nonprofit organization.

00:35:39.871 --> 00:35:47.885
We've got a couple of them that are on gas stations, things of that nature that house 10 to 12 of our overdose reversal kits.

00:35:47.885 --> 00:36:03.610
So someone who's looking for that resource, who knows that they need naloxone or test strips but isn't ready to have that in-person conversation or might have that stigma on themselves, or the person that they're getting naloxone for, can have that 24-7 access, no matter what.

00:36:03.610 --> 00:36:10.706
So whether or not it's four o'clock in the morning or it's four o'clock in the afternoon, they can go get that without that face-to-face conversation, right.

00:36:11.387 --> 00:36:12.871
And there's a map on the website.

00:36:12.871 --> 00:36:21.943
So you can go to the overdoselifelineorg and at the top of the page it says find naloxone near me or request naloxone here, something like that.

00:36:21.943 --> 00:36:35.755
It's very top of the page and you click there and that's where you can find the map of all the locations for these nalox boxes that Bree mentioned, plus an opportunity that, if you want some, we can send it to you, and there's a form that you complete there.

00:36:35.784 --> 00:36:39.458
Okay, and let me ask a couple of dumb questions First of all.

00:36:39.458 --> 00:36:46.460
And let me ask a couple dumb questions First of all, the test strip what does that test for?

00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:48.820
So we have two different test strips.

00:36:48.820 --> 00:36:51.181
There are fentanyl test strips and xylosine test strips.

00:36:51.181 --> 00:36:56.081
So fentanyl test strips would just test for the presence of fentanyl in a substance.

00:36:56.081 --> 00:37:00.963
We know that fentanyl is being found in tons of different illicit substances that are being sold on the market.

00:37:00.963 --> 00:37:16.719
So whether or not you're testing a Xanax, whether or not you're testing other benzodiazepines any pill that you buy illicitly, party drugs of any kind you can use a test strip to make sure that fentanyl to know if fentanyl is present or is not present.

00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:17.945
But similar to xylazine.

00:37:17.945 --> 00:37:31.139
Xylazine is being found in a lot of different opiates because it is also a vasoconstrictor that helps to relax you and helps to extend the effect of an opiate.

00:37:31.139 --> 00:37:34.686
However, it can be harmful in its own ways as well.

00:37:34.686 --> 00:37:40.074
So xylosine test strips would be used to test for the presence of xylosine in any substance as well.

00:37:40.396 --> 00:37:51.077
Okay, and then my next dumb question is can you self-administer the drug?

00:37:51.577 --> 00:37:53.621
No, you cannot self-administer naloxone.

00:37:53.621 --> 00:37:58.918
By the time that somebody knows that they're overdosing, they're already actively overdosing.

00:37:58.918 --> 00:38:07.885
So it's more for friends, family members, concerned colleagues, laypersons to be able to bridge that gap between the call and 911.

00:38:08.405 --> 00:38:16.550
I thought that was the case, but I wasn't sure, especially when you said well, it gives people access who don't want anyone else to know.

00:38:16.550 --> 00:38:23.940
But in that case, the test strips I would understand for sure, but the naloxone?

00:38:24.664 --> 00:38:41.360
So I think that that's about the stigma of actually having to say to someone that they want the overdose reversal drug, especially in some of the counties and areas of the state where you still might need to go to the local health department to get naloxone.

00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:43.371
It's just that conversation.

00:38:43.371 --> 00:38:48.440
It's that stigma that exists about, especially if it's a family member.

00:38:48.440 --> 00:39:00.211
So sometimes it's about a family member who knows that their loved one is maybe, um, potentially going to overdose, and so they get the drug for them, but they don't really want to tell anyone.

00:39:00.431 --> 00:39:00.693
Yes.

00:39:01.173 --> 00:39:21.614
And we do encourage and we like to talk to people about not using a loan because, again, stigma and shame cause us to use a loan frequently, and so we do encourage people not to use a loan for that reason that you can't save yourself and I would assume that's some of the work that you are overseeing on the street with what you offer.

00:39:21.965 --> 00:39:30.786
Yep, trying to educate people on how the best practices when it comes to harm reduction on how to make sure that they're being as safe as possible.

00:39:30.786 --> 00:39:31.969
So not using a loan.

00:39:31.969 --> 00:39:35.615
There's a national never use a loan hotline, of course.

00:39:35.615 --> 00:39:47.534
Access to test strips when to test your drugs, because you need to test them every time you use them because of what's called the chocolate chip cookie effect All those things are things that we want to make sure we're educating people on.

00:39:49.425 --> 00:39:53.516
And then one more question for you guys as we get ready to wrap up here.

00:39:53.516 --> 00:40:17.197
I know that you have a website and you have an email address, but if I have a family member whether it's a child, a sister, brother, whatever the case may be parent that I suspect, or maybe more than suspect, is in danger of potentially overdosing.

00:40:17.197 --> 00:40:19.739
What are my first steps?

00:40:27.344 --> 00:40:28.268
what are my first steps?

00:40:28.268 --> 00:40:32.061
Well, I think the first steps is to get naloxone and to have that open, honest conversation with the person that I love and care about.

00:40:32.061 --> 00:40:43.275
So that's part of really harm reduction is if, if, instead of I fight with my loved one or whatever the case may be, which is really just fear based Stop using drugs.

00:40:43.275 --> 00:40:44.507
I don't want to use drugs.

00:40:44.507 --> 00:40:49.146
Instead, I go to them and I say I don't want you to use, but I know that you're using.

00:40:49.146 --> 00:40:53.336
So if you could stay home and use and let me know, then I can check on you.

00:40:53.336 --> 00:41:09.079
And that changes the whole dynamic anyway, because now I'm not feeling as much shame about my drug use, because you've come to me and acknowledged that you care about me and you're not judging me in the same way you did when you were arguing with me about it.

00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:09.599
Yes.

00:41:10.666 --> 00:41:13.014
So I think that would be one of the first things I should do.

00:41:13.014 --> 00:41:23.603
I should also look for a community that can help me, whether that's a 12-step community or a craft program through Overdose Lifeline, a 12-step community or a craft program through Overdose Lifeline.

00:41:23.603 --> 00:41:31.472
Find other people that are experiencing the same thing I'm experiencing, so I don't feel alone, so I can talk about what worked for you that can maybe help work for me.

00:41:32.146 --> 00:41:34.715
So craft would be a potential resource there.

00:41:34.905 --> 00:41:36.373
Yep craft would be a potential resource there.

00:41:37.666 --> 00:41:43.967
Yeah, and of course, staying educated on the current resources and the current drug climate, if at all possible, right.

00:41:43.967 --> 00:41:51.670
So, of course, if you know somebody's using opiates or suspect that it's opiate use, then having naloxone test strips is great.

00:41:51.670 --> 00:42:01.157
But also if it's benzodiazepine use, if it's any other antidepressant misuse, anything like that, where they're purchasing them illicitly.

00:42:01.157 --> 00:42:04.295
You'd never know what you're getting on the illicit market.

00:42:04.295 --> 00:42:10.257
What's given to you as a blue M30 could really be 100% pure fentanyl.

00:42:10.257 --> 00:42:13.735
It could be 100% pure baby powder.

00:42:13.735 --> 00:42:16.072
We don't really know what that looks like.

00:42:16.072 --> 00:42:37.436
So making sure that you're having those open and ominous conversations like Justin mentioned, as well as being educated on what to look for, what resources like test strips are out there, and advocating for the use of test strips, advocating for the use of harm reduction practices, and for that education piece, what would be a first step?

00:42:40.266 --> 00:42:44.034
Well, I think it goes back to that open and honest conversation.

00:42:44.034 --> 00:42:59.429
So you know, bree reminded me that we unfortunately have a lot of youth who are struggling and using Adderall and Xanax and things that they're getting from their friends at school.

00:42:59.429 --> 00:43:15.653
And those pills again, as Bree mentioned, that you don't get from a pharmacist and or your doctor, potentially are not what they look to be and there are fake pill presses that drug dealers buy and they look just like a Xanax and they're not.

00:43:15.653 --> 00:43:30.860
And so being willing as a parent and a caregiver and a loved one to not sort of say not my kid, but actually instead be willing to talk about is so dangerous out there right now.

00:43:31.485 --> 00:43:42.954
You know college age students are developmentally appropriately experimenting and having fun, but it's too dangerous so we just have to be willing to talk about how dangerous it is.

00:43:42.954 --> 00:43:46.092
It really isn't that just say no conversation.

00:43:46.092 --> 00:43:52.027
It's more of can we, can we be aware that we should really know what we're getting and test?

00:43:53.789 --> 00:44:04.438
it's crucial, scary yeah, it is Well, justin and Bree.

00:44:04.438 --> 00:44:19.769
Thank you so much for your willingness to share with us and, more than that, thank you so much for the way you're serving individuals and our community in such a powerful way.

00:44:20.105 --> 00:44:22.010
Yeah, thank you so much, we appreciate it.